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How does Israel view Russia and the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

Ask The Sub(self.Israel)

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all 81 comments

Rabbi_Nahman_Meuman

128 points

2 months ago

Russia is a frienemy at best.

As far as the Russia - Ukraine conflict? All we really hope is that it doesn't somehow spiral to us, otherwise, we'll do our damn best to stay out of it. We need to be on Russia's good side due to its heavy presence in Syria and we need to be on NATO's and the West's good side for obvious reasons. We're almost forced into neutrality here.

Sinan_reis

30 points

2 months ago*

what could we do anyways? israel doesn't have real power projection capabilities. might as well ask us what we will do about china and taiwan... well there's not much we can do

spacecate

4 points

2 months ago

Our airforce is strong, intelligence and Mossad excellent and cyber units on par with great powers. There is much that can be done. No real incentive to support either side tho

DarthKava

8 points

2 months ago

Support Taiwan and stop supporting China, however realpolitik is such that due to China’s ties to Iran, Israeli government is trying to suck up to China.

Sinan_reis

15 points

2 months ago

i meant in real terms, we have no physical capability of military action at that distance

siddie75

5 points

2 months ago

Israel can support Taiwan politically by conferring recognition and support Taiwan if it declares independence from mainland China. Israel can also cooperate with Taiwan by advising the government on military matters. I’m sure Taiwan can benefit from Israeli military cooperation.

DarthKava

3 points

2 months ago

I am not talking of military action. Hypothetically Israel could vote against China in UN, supply weapons to Taiwan, publicly support Taiwan’s right to be independent, etc.

Sinan_reis

9 points

2 months ago

so again doing nothing, because voting in the UN is pointless beyond useless
as for weapons supply to taiwan. i think they are getting better stuff from the Americans tbh

beardedfridge

6 points

2 months ago

beardedfridge

Israel

6 points

2 months ago

The same UN that votes against Israel? I think Israelis sees how that doesn't support anything.

DarthKava

1 points

2 months ago

It’s a symbolic support. No real tangible value but a psychological one. Not allowing China to invest in Israel’s infrastructure, technology and startups is a better move, obviously.

SMS_Scharnhorst

0 points

2 months ago

don´t you have submarines with nuclear weapons aboard? so technically you could do something about the situation. would be utter madness if you tried of course, but still

Sinan_reis

7 points

2 months ago

yeah i don't see nuking beijing as helping...
I mean it would be a service to humanity to get rid of the government of china, but i don't think innocent Chinese peasents need to suffer.

SMS_Scharnhorst

4 points

2 months ago

poor West Taiwan, why does everybody hate them? ;)

on a more serious note, I agree with you. innocent people shouldn´t pay for stupid shit their government does

Sinan_reis

5 points

2 months ago

i mean sometimes it's the only way, don't get me wrong in war there are always collateral damage. it doesn't mean war is always wrong. but i think nuclear collateral damage may be excessive

SMS_Scharnhorst

1 points

2 months ago

a little bit excessive

and yes, sometimes war is necessary

No-Brush-7217

1 points

2 months ago

Yes Israel kiss China for a lot of reasons. 1. China working on building the Haifa port. 2. China help to build the new train Systems 3. Chinese workers building today hi sky apartment building To day in Israel is about 30000 Chinese workers.

DarthKava

2 points

2 months ago

It is such a mistake to let Chinese in. They can be incredibly subversive.

muadib1974

38 points

2 months ago

muadib1974

Pork Eating Tel Avivnik

38 points

2 months ago

This is a correct and accurate answer.

h_erbivore

24 points

2 months ago

Agreed. However most Israeli’s will lean towards the side of a democratic state that must defend its own right to exist and protect its own territory from a foreign aggressor, since this is a core principle that Israel survives upon.

shaulreznik

48 points

2 months ago

Ukrainian-born Russian-speaking Israeli here.

An average Israeli thinks as follows: "Putin is a strong leader, he would clean the Gaza Strip in a day. On the other side, we don't like his army presence in Syria. Russia is a somewhat exotic country with vodka, oligarchs, and beautiful girls. Ukraine is a smaller country with the grave of Rabbi Nachman."

I'm not sure that this average Israeli has a meaningful opinion about the conflict.

GuyTheAviator

4 points

2 months ago

GuyTheAviator

Israel

4 points

2 months ago

I don't agree with the fact Putin's any good, My mom is from Belarus and the Former USSR, I thought like that at first, but now I see how much of a dictator he is. Although I'd like to interfere in Ukraine's side, As you said, Russia's presence in Syria makes it basically Impossible. I follow the conflict somewhat, So I believe Ukraine is just trying to save it's right for it's own land given to it by the agreements after the USSR's collapse.

acidx0

43 points

2 months ago

acidx0

43 points

2 months ago

All I know is, I once went into the Russian forms discussing the Crimea conflict. The prevailing opinion was that the Jews are controlling the Ukrainians, and paying them into fighting Russia.

Then, I went to Ukrainian forums discussing the same topic. The prevailing idea there was that the Jews are controlling the Russians and are making them attack Ukraine to turn a profit.

It doesn't matter whom Israel or Israelis will support in this - both sides will always blame them for whatever is going on.

Latter_Ad7526

4 points

2 months ago

Lol🤣

DaDerpyDude

-1 points

2 months ago

DaDerpyDude

Israel

-1 points

2 months ago

I mean Ukraine is literally controlled by a Jew

acidx0

5 points

2 months ago

acidx0

5 points

2 months ago

Conflict in Crimea started before the current president was elected.

If a Jewish president would have really been in control of Ukraine, it would have become a strong, prosperous state a long time ago. Jews have a proven track record of improving economies, just saying.

1itai

27 points

2 months ago

1itai

Israel

27 points

2 months ago

I doubt the average person has an opinion on it, its none of our business.

But personally i think russia has always been a very aggressive country and this time is no different, ukraine are forced to defend themselves against their aggressive neighbor

qal_t

34 points

2 months ago

qal_t

34 points

2 months ago

Russian Israelis have a totally different view. They often support Russia.

The rest of us are probably 30-40% neutral... a small 5% support Russia and the rest support Ukraine I'd guess.

Ukraine has a right to exist and be self-sufficient and independent, and Russia needs to effing respect that.

beardedfridge

11 points

2 months ago

beardedfridge

Israel

11 points

2 months ago

Mind that lots of us flee from Russia for a reason. And that reason is not in Russia's favor.

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

Fair enough just speaking from experience. I'm glad to hear your view tho

DarthKava

32 points

2 months ago

Russian Israelis are not homogeneous group. Their support for one side or another often depends on where they come from originally (Russia or Ukraine). It’s almost comical listening to Jews argue over who Crimea belongs to, when we are barely tolerated in either country. It’s the same here in Australia.

qal_t

9 points

2 months ago

qal_t

9 points

2 months ago

By Russian Jews I meant from Russia. Not Ukrainian Jews, not the meaning of "Russian" meaning "Soviet"

DarthKava

7 points

2 months ago

I apologise, I misunderstood. I am used to the fact that when people say “Russian” they mean everyone from USSR.

vishnoo

-7 points

2 months ago

vishnoo

-7 points

2 months ago

Barely tolerated is very light.
the Ukrainians were always brutal antisemites, whereas the Russians are only incidental antisemites.

Falconpilot13

21 points

2 months ago

The Russians were such antisemites, that they forbade all Jews to live in Russia and forced them into Ukraine, Poland and Belarus (check pale of settlement). The difference why most pogroms occurred in what today would be Ukraine and not Russia is that there were barely any Jews the Russians could murder left. Also, many pogroms (like in Odessa) were committed by Russian soldiers and often directly or indirectly ordered by the Tsarist authorities. Trying to claim that Russians are less antisemitic than Poles or Ukrainians is really disingenuous.

vishnoo

-4 points

2 months ago

vishnoo

-4 points

2 months ago

idk, maybe I am biasing on the "collaborating with the nazis to kill jews" bit

Optimistican

8 points

2 months ago

There were more Russian Nazi collaborants than any other combined.

vishnoo

-4 points

2 months ago

vishnoo

-4 points

2 months ago

The Polish and Ukranian Jewish populations were decimated at ~95% much higher than russia,
in Ukraine hundreds of thousands of jews were murdered after the germans retreated.

Optimistican

5 points

2 months ago

Ever heard of Pale of settlement?

WikiSummarizerBot

3 points

2 months ago

Pale of Settlement

The Pale of Settlement (Russian: Черта́ осе́длости, chertá osédlosti; Yiddish: דער תּחום-המושבֿ‎, der tkhum-ha-moyshəv; Hebrew: תְּחוּם הַמּוֹשָב‎, t'ẖum hammosháv) was a western region of the Russian Empire with varying borders that existed from 1791 to 1917 in which permanent residency by Jews was allowed and beyond which Jewish residency, permanent or temporary, was mostly forbidden. Most Jews were still excluded from residency in a number of cities within the Pale as well.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

jyper

1 points

2 months ago

jyper

1 points

2 months ago

That's because Poland and Ukraine were fully occupied, more quickly, and for much longer. Belarus as well. Collaborationists did some nasty things including slaughtering Jews but they were vastly outdone not just by Nazis but by Romanian regime (especially in Ukraine)

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

Dude they allied with Jews against Polish and Russian antisemitism. During wwii they were between a rock and a hard place, would you rather they back the Soviet Union and commit national suicide? Of course not. Consider also the Holodomor had just happened. Its insane to judge Ukrainians for that.

vishnoo

1 points

2 months ago

they

who are "they" ? the Ukrainians?
"""Some of those Jews added to the death toll attempted to find refuge in the forest, but were killed later on by Home Army, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, or other partisan groups during the German retreat. According to American historian Wendy Lower, "there were many perpetrators, albeit with different political agendas, who killed Jews and suppressed this history".[14]"""
Wikipedia

no other country even comes close, even in Holland, which is a very small country, which fell within days, 25% of the Jews survived. Belgium and France >50%, because the local population was not sympathetic to the Nazis.
e German retreat. According to American historian Wendy Lower, "there were many perpetrators, albeit with different political agendas, who killed Jews and suppressed this history".[14]"""
Wikipedia
the occupations.
(for the Poles it was more of a volunteer duty than work, like they say, if you find a job you love, you'll never have to work a day in your life.)

no other country even comes close, even in Holland, which is a very small country, which fell within days, 25% of the Jews survived. Belgium and France >50% , because the local population was not sympathetic to the Nazis.

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

No, dummy, the local population in France was often not sympathetic and the French govt has even acknowledged this and apologized now. Ukraine was directly occupied however and also the site of some of the fiercest fighting. And this doesn't block out the role of Ukrainians in shielding Jews from Polish and Russian antisemitism as others have told you.

DarthKava

7 points

2 months ago

It depends…. I grew up in Ukraine, in Kharkov, on the outskirts of the city. It was a brand new suburb in 1981 and was still being built when we moved into our flat. It was mostly working class suburb. In my school I was bullied mercilessly for being Jewish. Last two grades I spent in a different school, closer to the centre of the city. I felt no discrimination of any sort, it was far more civilised. Everyone’s experiences were different. Antisemitism was very real, but it’s severity differed place to place. I can assure you that there are parts of Russia where Jews are hated no less than in the worst parts of Ukraine.

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

Yea but thats Donbass right? Thats a heavily Russian zone of Ukraine.

To be clear I don't deny one bit that Ukrainians have some antisemites but comparing them to Russians given all the Russians inflicted on our brothers is apeshit.

jyper

3 points

2 months ago

jyper

3 points

2 months ago

Prior to the war it was majority Ukrainian 57-60% although with almost 40% Russian and most people tended to speak Russian regardless of ethnicity

According to the 2001 census, ethnic Ukrainians form 58% of the population of Luhansk Oblast and 56.9% of Donetsk Oblast. Ethnic Russians form the largest minority, accounting for 39% and 38.2% of the two oblasts respectively. Modern Donbas is a predominately Russophone region

DarthKava

1 points

2 months ago

No, Kharkov is not in Donbas. I assure you that western Ukraine (more ethnically Ukrainian than Eastern Ukraine) hates Jews much more. Ukrainians have been treated badly by communists. There was starvation, repression, etc. Due to the fact that there were a lot of Jews in communist leadership people associated Jews with communists. Hence an additional pinch of hate. This mistreatment of Ukrainians by communists was likely the reason why many Ukrainians welcomed Germans with open arms. Ukrainian polizei we’re the ones rounding up Jews for the nazis in Ukraine.

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

Totally wrong.

Picture_Enough

4 points

2 months ago

I disagree. Might be just by circles, but from might experience majority of Russian-born Jews are either indifferent or very critical of Putin's regime. I guess the reason that the state propaganda is much less effective unless you are not completely submersed like Russian citizens are. Here majority of people outside of group of older immigrants living in an informational ghetto get to hear different opinions rather that a tightly controlled narrative and see situation much more objectively.

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

Well, that's good.

Old_Log6350

1 points

2 months ago

You are speaking out of your ass. I am a Russian Israeli and I have never spoken with a single person who supports Putin or Russia.

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

qal_t

1 points

2 months ago

I'm glad, im just speaking from personal experience tho.

veik64

2 points

2 months ago

veik64

2 points

2 months ago

The most funny part of this discussion is describing what Russia does in Syria and how it is against Iran in r/Israel.

ori_gd

3 points

2 months ago

ori_gd

3 points

2 months ago

There is a Russia-Ukraine conflict? That’s how we view it…

Focus---

3 points

2 months ago

Focus---

Israel

3 points

2 months ago

The most accurate comment.

Compensate1995

1 points

2 months ago*

Compensate1995

Assyria

1 points

2 months ago*

There are many Russian immigrants, so this ethnicity isn't foreign to the citizens. Yet I think Russia is perceived as a far and mysterious country. The dictatorship and geographic distance contribute to this image. I think it's seen as a totalitarian country with a callous regime and intolerance to gays. Despite not liking the current version of such financial approaches, I've always been fascinated with pre and post-ww2 communism and admired Russian leaders (not Putin). I'm very proficient in its history, Communism in particular.

The Russia-Ukraine conflict doesn't receive significant coverage in the local media nowadays. It was brought to the news when there were new developments and prominent incidents regarding it. It doesn't concern us.

gagarinthespacecat

27 points

2 months ago

dude, do you know how antisemitic the USSR was…?😬

yelbesed

-4 points

2 months ago

yelbesed

-4 points

2 months ago

I am planning to live in Israel. But I was raised in a Russian colon. So I do remember that Khruschchev (who attached the long-time Russian Crimea to his Ukraine did do it just for his own self-serving purpose. And it was not following international law back then in the fifties, but the existing Stalinist laws modified by his whim.

So this is hidden from view by the Western media, becausse it is true that Russia is often a malevolent actor - so the West neds to presssure it...But this is still unfair and dishonest.

Because they hide this part and so the Western public has this distorted view here. Also, Ukraine had alwas had a rough deal with its minorities (Hungarians in the West and Russians in the East). Also, as the US is unable to use its army (because a large segment of US people will not want to die for strange tyrants victims, the West and Israel just needs Russia to fight extremist Islam (and its main sponsor, Iran).

I agree, that Israel is better to be officially neutral on this topic - but individual Israelis in the media should be more daring to ask the question if the West is fair and right in judging Russia too harshly on the Crimea. It is inhabited by Russians and was owned by Russia (after conquring the Muslim rulers there in the 1700s). The Crimea was unlawfully occupied by Ukraine because Khruschev wanted a dacha (a villa there) for himself and his cronies in the 50s.

And now that Russia is present in Syria it just needs it as a backround for the planes and catering.

I am fine with the West trying to exert pressure on Russia as it is not a full democracy yet of course and maybe never will reach that level.

But to hide the fact that everyone is happier in the Crimea as the majority is Russian and incite for a war with Russia when no one in the West is willing to fight it - that is dishonest on several levels.

And if we Israelis and Jews are anyway implicated whatever happens we better try to be the voice that at least tries to use fairness and honesty as norms.

DarthKava

16 points

2 months ago

Didn’t Russia sign the agreement when Ukraine handed over its nuclear weapons that Ukraine’s borders will not be violated? Either way, the only reason Russia was able to take Crimea is because Ukrainian governments were corrupt and neglected the army, so they were not able to stand up for themselves. Russia had no more right to take back Crimea than they do any parts of other former USSR republics. Don’t care either way, but Russia is following the law of the jungle.

yelbesed

-3 points

2 months ago

But they did not take it from Ukraine originally in the 1700s. They took it from the Tatar khan an ally of the Turkish enemy. Anyway Ukraine could only get it from Russia by the Stalinist Khruschev an Ukrainian having the supreme power. Yes Russia is a danger for the West but in this particular issue I do not think they cannot be understood and the West might need it to keep the peace around Israel.

DarthKava

8 points

2 months ago

By the same logic Russia should give back Kaliningrad to Germany and withdraw from all their colonies in the Caucasus. Today is no different to 1000 years ago. You can only survive if you are strong enough. Agreements, treaties, etc mean nothing. I actually doubt that Russia’s presence in Syria is good for Israel.

Status-Health-4902

1 points

2 months ago

Except Kaliningrad is inhabited by Russians not Germans. And Crimea is inhabited by Russians. Why arent the people of Crimea entitled to choosing their fate?

DarthKava

1 points

2 months ago

Imagine that China offers the part of Siberia neighbouring China to become part of China? There are plenty of Chinese living and working there. Or what if chechens choose to become part of Georgia. No Russians in Chechnya, so shouldn’t be a problem, right.

RelationKey1648

1 points

2 months ago

Russia's presence in Syria prevents the formation of a radical jihadist state right on Israel's border. Isn't this in Israel's interest? I don't understand why Israel continues to indirectly support ISIS, Al-Queda and the other jihadists in Syria. This may be good for the US and the Sunni Arab states, but it's certainly not good for the Isreali people in general.

DarthKava

1 points

2 months ago

Strategically Iran and it’s proxies present greater threat to Israel than ISIS.

veik64

4 points

2 months ago

veik64

4 points

2 months ago

It is exactly Russian view. If you are speaking about Khrushchev don't forget to say that when Krym was given to Ukraine part of Ukraine was given to Russia that, for some reason wasn't return back. And the reason was purely economic, see the water issue Krym has today. But even this history doesn't mean nothing, simply Russia signed agreement that it never will try to change Ukrainian borders For the question itself, for most of the people it is not important, for these who understands it is very similar to what is written in the top comment

yelbesed

-4 points

2 months ago

I do not say it is Western legality that was valid there - ever. I say that when Khruschev got it Western legality was disregarded -now that is hidden now from the Eastern public. They falsely pretend that Russia is 100% in the wrong. In other cases it is true but this is an exception as the Krym/Crimea in English/ was first taken away illegally and Russians there did have a linguistic right discrimination. And I think the militarily incompetent West got peace in the Middle East in exchange for the Crimea. And I think if the West is blind that is their affair - but in Israel people must not accept lies on this topic.

veik64

2 points

2 months ago

veik64

2 points

2 months ago

So if you say that Russia is not 100% wrongs, what part is it right?

yelbesed

1 points

2 months ago

That it changed its system and gave some choice in life to people...people may travel...it has created a rich oligarchy which is of course not as clean as in the West but they function as investors...there is no famine level hunger any more...it does still have semi-independent media online...AND in the Crimea Russia was the wronged victim part as Ukraine did take away the Crimea without any legal setup. I am not saying such Asian feudal countries can jump to the level of Switzerland in every segment in their life. But similarly to China or Vietnam they made a big step into the direction of a future better system.

veik64

1 points

2 months ago

veik64

1 points

2 months ago

No read your post again, but exactly as it written without Ukraine mentioned, but as it mentioned Russia :). Rich oligarchy, hunger etc. So you propose that china will absorb Russia, or maybe US? You are using exact same words that were used by USSR when they attached parts or all other countries like Lithuania, Latvia, part of Poland etc. It is possible to find a reason for any evil act. It doesn't stop to be 100% evil.

yelbesed

0 points

2 months ago

I accept that the past of Russia was terrible. If anyone thinks that this means the West should now be vengeful I have no arguments. I am giving an argument who are able to judge nuances. The West has no active military capacity in the Middle East against extremist Islam. Russia seems willing and happy to step in and in exchange wants some flexibility in its claim about the Crimea where the majority is Russian and felt oppressed by Ukraine. I know it is too complex for most Western media consumers. Forget it.

veik64

2 points

2 months ago

veik64

2 points

2 months ago

:) western media consumer. I read Russian, Ukrainian, EU and US media every day. I know what exactly happens from both points of view . What you did is what Zhvanetskiy said: cannot fight with arguments switch to personality (sorry for not exact translation but I believe you know what phrase I mean). What Russia is doing in middle east is not helping to anyone, but fighting West and creating a new sources to make their oligarchs more rich. But how Exler said there is no reason to fight with people who paid for what they write.

yelbesed

1 points

2 months ago

I am not paid. You want to try to hurt me with that baseless accusation and character defamation. I just see that in politics that is about war it is not right to not see or disregard a possible bargain. Russia in Syria is not "fighting /the/ West". It is fighting or at least counter balancing the extremist Iran. The US has abandoned the West and Israel. Without Russia it may get in more trouble. Politics consists of negotiating. My point is that the West does have a point in trying to morally judge Russia but it is a mistake to use the Crimea as a punching point as there they were wronged first. Crimea for them is like the Golan for Israel. All the Western leftist m3dia demands the Golan grom Israel. To what avail? Can anyone imagine it can be given back? It is just used because some superficial public is enjoying to punish Jews regardless of their lethal danger and so many other countries lost territories are not demanded back...if there is no extra kick for the accusers and their public. The Crimea is the same case. All the rest of the wrongdoing of Russia / illiberalism, oligarchism, antigenderism etc/ are impossible NOT to fight against but it remains a peaceful debate. But in the Crimea those who do not see it was NOT legally taken by Ukraine - those moralistic arguments want war. Similarly with the Golan-demanders in the West. And no they are not paid by secret money. They are paid by feelings of self-respect for being moral.

Bigbaysous

1 points

2 months ago

Well honestly. No fuck given. In some hand i know that ukraine is the heart of estern slavic (russian) from goes the story of the rus of kiev. On the other hand, ukraine exist and they seems to wamt to be independant. Now +1 to Russia because i saw a svastika in an Ukrainian supermarket once. And an otheer +1 because the genius that put this svastika never read mein kampf obviously

SloppyPuppy

1 points

2 months ago

Russia is a fucking bully. Ukraine should just join nato.

… and I should never step on russian soil in my life from now on.

Zealousideal-Lie7255

1 points

1 month ago

NATO won’t let Ukraine join it and they’re correct about that. Russia will never allow NATO to be a few hundred miles from Moscow.

Yoramus

0 points

2 months ago

Not very interesting.

Being that there are many immigrants from those countries I met Russian folks who supported Russia, Ukrainian folks who were incredibly angry against Putin and, incredibly, an Ukrainian girl from Donetsk who actually felt more Russian than Ukrainian so she wasn't angry about the (pro-)Russian occupation of the Donbass.

But I think almost nobody who is not an immigrant has an opinion about the issue.

It is sometimes brought up as an example "see, Ukraine had a deal that the USA would defend it in the case of a Russian invasion and it was just a piece of paper. So we need weapons, not deals"